>> this is not class warfare, it's math. >> tonight, president obama takes the gop back to school. republicans, keep ignoring the average american while keeping millionaires and billionaires happy with tax cuts. plus, extra credit, not so fast, 2012 candidates. do you seriously think you'll make the grade by trying to privatize social security? and the race to save death row inmate troy davis, five judges, one life-or-death decision. it could be the ultimate injustice. welcome to "politics nation." i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, the war over

class warfare. today, a defiant president obama put forth his plan for reducing the deficit. he wants to protect medicare and social security while making corporations and the rich pay their fair share in taxes. >> middle class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires. that's pretty straightforward. warren buffett's secretary shouldn't pay a higher tax rate than warren buffett. there's no justification for it. we can't afford to do both. this is not class warfare. it's math. >> the president also took a tough stance against the republicans, promising he'd veto any gop zedeficit plan that wast fair. >> i will not support any plan that puts all the burden for closing our deficit on ordinary americans. and i will veto any bill that changes benefits for those who

rely on medicare but does not raise taxes by asking the wealthiest americans and corporations to pay their fair share. >> republicans claim raising taxes on the rich, would somehow kill the economy. >> well, i don't believe that class warfare is leadership. we could get into this tax the rich, tax the rich, but that's not the basis for america. and it's not going to get our economy going again. >> but this isn't true. president clinton raised taxes on the wealthy back in the '90s and the economy took off. >> when i became president, we had a different kind of recessi recession. but i asked the same, the wealthiest americans who had their incomes grow the month in the eight years before i took office and had had repeated tax cuts to give back some of that

money so we could balance the budget and get interest rates down. and it worked. >> it worked. clinton raised taxes on the rich and created 23 million new jobs during his presidency. by contrast, george w. bush cut taxes on the wealthy during his time in office. but he created just 3 million jobs and left america with a crushing deficit. look, folks, as warren buffett said a few years ago, there already is class warfare in this country. buffett said, quote, there's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war and we're winning. and he's right. winning with 9.1% unemployment and they don't want to invest in job creation in the infrastructure? winning by taking out a whole battle to eradicate collective bargaining in wisconsin and indiana and wipe out the labor movement?

winning by talking about privatizing social security? yeah, it's warfare and they're angry because people are saying, stop the war against the working class and the poor and let's build one nation that stands fair and equitable for everyone. joining me now, connecticut congressman john larsen, chairman of the house democratic caucus, a passionate voice focusing on jobs, not cuts. thank you for joining me, congressman. >> happy to be with you, reverend al. >> the president spoke today, it seemed like the fighting president that a lot of people have been saying they wanted to see. he clearly took the position today that he wanted to protect people that needed the protection. he wanted real shared sacrifice. and i think he said that he will even veto any move by the super committee that would, in fact, cut spending and not balance it

out with trying to deal with the new revenues in terms of those new tax laws and the new tax code that he had proposed. what is your response to this? >> well, i think the president got it right today. clearly the whole concept amongst the american people is one of shared sacrifice and fairness. we're a nation at war. and when you see, as warren buffett pointed out, .3% of the nation accumulating the wealth. and the president says taxing people earning over a million dollars -- that's a million dollars in a year. that's not a million dollars in accumulated savings. the people where i come from in east hartford think it's a matter of fairness and a matter, quite frankly, of putting the 14 million people who are unemployed back to work. we know and as you point out

that job creation equals deficit reduction. and put them back by investing in our own infrastructure. rebuilding this country. >> people seem to understand that, congressman. if you look at this graph that i want to share with you, this is what the american people are saying. it seems strange to me that we are looking at this -- when you ask the american people, raise taxes on the wealthy, $250,000 a year or more, 56% say yes, according to "the new york times." and it's not just you and i who are considered maybe centrist or left. u.s. corporations are sitting on $4 trillion-plus in cash. this is, in my opinion, an easy one, if you look at it and you're concerned about the american people. >> oh, absolutely. and it's also patriotic. when ever in the history of this country have we been at war and

not paid for that war? when in the history of this country have we doled out tax cuts at the expense of the poorest amongst us as we see more americans slip into poverty and we see the middle class continue to be squeezed? all they want is the simple dignity that comes from a job and the ability to look across the table at their spouse and their children, let them know that they are providers for them. again, this select committee, as you've heard me say over and over again, ought to take up the president's plan for job creation as well as his proposal here for fairness. >> when you say fairness, let me tell you, congressman, as you tell me why, i want the american people to understand how obscene this is. look at the income gains, 1979 to 2007. the top 1% that you just talked about gained 281% in their

income. income gained 281% from '79 to 2007. the bottom 20% only went up 16%. what are we talking about? this is supposed to be america. this is supposed to be a land where we all have a fair chance. how do you have that kind of imbalance in income growth? >> well, i think roosevelt said it best. of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle, and there are reasonable colleagues under there, as you pointed out, in polling data, they understand not only all americans. but republicans understand the fairness behind this. but we have a few, as roosevelt said, that are frozen in the ice of their own indifference towards working america. as you rightfully point out, that's the war that's taking place on labor. that's the war that's squeezing americans and all for what? over a political fight for power.

listen, put america back to work. give this president what every president should be entitled to, an up-or-down vote on his agenda, on his plan. put it before the select committee so it can't be subject to the cloture vote in the senate which could hold it up for eternity or to poison amendments in the house. an up-or-down vote on the economy and putting 14 million americans back to work lowering our deficit and creating fairness, that's what the country is trying for, reverend al. >> well, i agree with you. and i agree with the characterize around the country. congressman john larsen, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> now let's bring in jared bernstein. he's now an msnbc contributor and senior fellow for the center budget and policy priorities. jared, when we look at the disparities in terms of income, it's amazing to me -- i just

showed a graph to congressman larsen about from -- in the last years from '79 to 2007, 281% increase for the rich. only 16% increase for the bottom 20%. and then they look at us when we talk about shared sacrifice as if there's somebody trying to harm them to say, you can't keep having tax cuts. look at the kind of profits they're making. it is amazing to me that somebody would try to justify continuing this kind of unequal relationship. >> i agree. by the way, i made a graph that had those numbers in it this very morning. and if you actually look at when those income gains did occur for the bottom or the middle, they were about 1979 to around 1999 or so. >> i'm looking at that graph now. >> they've just gone nowhere

since 1999. the middle income family, median household income peaked back there in 1999. and it's down 4,000 bucks in real dollars since then. look, reverend, at some level, i kind of want to almost talk past you and me and congressman larsen and just speak to anyone who's in that top 1% or .5% if they happen to be listening and ask them, how much is enough and how much do you care about this country and people walking into your factory and into your store and employing americans? how much do you care about retirement security here in this -- >> the ceo at google did address this. we're not talking about just some -- would they try to act like some wild-eyed liberals. let's listen to what the ceo of google, ed schmidt, what he himself had to say.

>> the strategy is ludicrous. a private sector sees no growth in demand. the classic solution is to have the government step in and with short-term initiatives help stimulate that demand. it needs not just something like the jobs bill but also significant government stimulation in terms of buying power and investment. >> that's eric schmidt, former ceo of google. this is no guy that's running around leading a labor union or leading jobs marches. what are we talking about here? the american people need to understand the gravity of this, jared. >> that's right. and it's an important -- i was on a radio show the other day with bill gross, the bond trader who runs pimco. this guy is worth billions of dollars and he said exactly the same thing. i think sometimes what happens in this town is the representatives of these people don't really represent them at all. there are lots of business folks out there who understand the kind of shared sacrifice that the president was talking about today, not because they're good

democrats and good patriots, many of them are, but because it's an insight that henry ford had a century or so ago which is that if people don't have any income in their paychecks, they're not going to walk in your door and they're not going to create a business climate that you can flourish in. and, sure, you can go abroad and do all you want in the emerging economies outside this country. but ultimately if this country can't grow because the broad middle class is getting whacked by all this inequality, that's not class warfare, that's math. >> and it's for people who, to me -- when you look at -- let me show you you last graph, jared. when you look at the amount of wealth in this country controlled by just 1%, 1% of the top rich or wealthy in this country controls 40% of the wealth. 1%. so we're protecting people that

are in control of 40% of the wealth in this country. it's like when i saw the movie where they say, what's your number, what's your number? he says, my number is more. it's like they never get enough. and when working class people are just asking for a break, they want to fix bridges and schools and tunnels in their own communities, live off the sweat of their brow, they're accused of class warfare? they're the ones that had the warfare perpetrated on them. >> you have to beware -- when the guy who's winning the fight tries to tell you there is no fight going on, that's the time to perk up your ears. >> when i worry is when he and the referees so, don't swing back. jared bernstein, thanks as always. >> thank you, sir. coming up, rick ponzi scheme perry is making social security a wedge issue inside his own party. how bad is it hurting the republicans? plus, president obama got

tough today. are you republicans ready for more? you're watching "politics nation." there's only one bottle left ! i've got to tell susie ! the vending machine on elm is almost empty. i'm on it, boss. new pony ? sorry ! we are open for business. let's reroute greg to fresno.

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president obama is ready for the fight. he got tough. and i loved it. that's next. t get enough vegeta. so here's five bucks to help you buy v8 juice. five bucks. that's a lot of green. go to v8juice.com for coupons. you can count on us. why did you buy my husband a falcon? thanks for the falcon. i didn't buy anyone a falcon. sure, you did. you saved us a lot of money on auto insurance. i used that money to buy a falcon. ergo, you bought me a falcon. i should've got a falcon. most people who switch to state farm save on average about $480. what they do with it, well, that's their business. oh, that explains a lot, actually. [ chuckles ]

[ male announcer ] another reason people switch to state farm. aw, i could've gotten a falcon. [ male announcer ] get to a better state. [ falcon screeches ] today we saw a side of the president we haven't seen for a while, his fighting side. ready to take on his political opponents. >> so the speaker says, we can't

have it my way or the highway. and then basically says, my way. or the highway. that's not smart. it's not right. if we're going to meet our responsibilities, we have to do it together. >> and ready to fight for what's fair for every american. >> either we ask the wealthiest americans to pay their fair share in taxes or we're going to have to ask seniors to pay more for medicare. we can't afford to do both. i reject the idea that asking a hedge fund manager to pay the same tax rate as a plumber or teacher is class warfare. i think it's just the right thing to do. >> republicans, you ask for leadership, how do you like it? joining me now, dana millbank.

thanks for your time tonight. dana, the president came out tough and strong. i was jumping up and down in my office. you could see it took me 15 minutes to sit down on the show tonight. i couldn't sit down. that's what i wanted to see. what do you make of this tougher president? >> that's right. bill and i were there in the rose garden. and i had to calm bill down a little bit. he was so fired up about this. and i think it is -- whether or not you even agree with the policy that the president is putting forth, he's finally showing some leadership here. what he had been doing in the past is he comes out and his first bid is really where he wants to end up with. the joke is that he's showing up for a strip poker match wearing only his boxer shorts. so finally the guy is coming out -- >> i don't think that's funny, dana. but go ahead. >> okay. he's finally coming out here and demanding more than he expects to get, but says, look, i'm going to take it to you republicans.

they can howl about class warfare. line, let them. they're going to howl about it anyway. they're going to call him a socialist anyway. he might as well demand big things. he may actually get more this way. >> bill, the republicans' response, typical. let me go through the top contenders on the republican side. perry says, it's a bait and switch. weathered mitt romney says it's, quote, crushing impact on economic growth. and michele bachmann says, it's warfare on millions of small businesses, on charities and on middle class america. i mean, it is expected response, but it's really not saying much in terms of addressing why shouldn't millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share? >> yeah, pretty weak, too. first of all, i want to thank dana for restraining me today. i would have been thrown out of

the rose garden if i had cheered. but, listen, he was on fire today. it was not a campaign setting but it was a campaign speech. and he really showed leadership and he showed backbone and he showed fight. i think the american people want a fighter. when he took it to john boehner twice by name, i thought that was really, really good, strong stuff. but the key question is, reverend al, as you point out, they can't just say, look, this is class warfare and then run away from it. his question is, why shouldn't the wealthiest men in america pay the same rate of taxes as his barber does or the guy that cuts his lawn? if they can't answer that question, they're in bad shape. >> that is what was so appealing. if you listen to this, he talked about, let's just talk about what's fair. look at this part of what the president said about just whether it's unfair or not. >> in the united states of america, a teacher or nurse or construction worker who earns

$50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million? anybody who says we can't change the tax code to correct that, anyone who has signed some pledge to protect every single tax loophole so long as they live, they should be called out. they should have to defend that unfairness. >> unfairness. how do they get around the fact that it is just blatantly unfair, dana? >> i think sometimes the problem is the president gets bogged down in this debate about how much we cut from this program, $10 billion here, $100 billion here. he doesn't speak to that larger issue. he did that today. he said, this isn't about the ledger or the balance sheet. it is about what's fair. that's why i think he should invite that class warfare argument there because he may find the republicans will back down. but at the very least, he's finally going to have people in

his own base saying, he finally plant add flag, there's something to rally around. the president needs to keep saying this, not just give a good speech. he has to keep hammering away at this. >> bill, we've seen this work before. even bill clinton, i said in the first segment to congressman larsen, when clinton raised taxes, he also generated jobs. he was questioned about this today. look at what former president bill clinton said. >> republicans in washington always say the same thing. any tax on any upper income person is bad because they're job creators. it's an insult to those people. they don't mind being asked to pay their fair share. >> now, here's a man talking that whether we agree or disagree on all his policies left this country in a surplus. he's agreeing with president obama. >> look, reverend al, you have two very clear contrasts here. one, president clinton raised tax on the wealthy, as you

pointed out earlier. 23 million private sector jobs, new jobs created. george bush cut tax on the wealthy, we lost 8 million jobs. the other contrast that president obama again today made is he wants to cut taxes, extend the tax cut for the middle class and end the tax cut for the wealthy and the republicans have said right flat out they want to end the tax cut for the middle class and extend the tax cut for the wealthy. you cannot have a clearer contrast going into 2011. dana's right f he stays on that message, i think obama has a winning message. >> the american people are clear, according to all polls. i think i'll have a hard time finding my seat. i'll be up jumping up and down for a long time. but i like it. it will keep my weight down. >> where's he been for the last three years, right? >> you can look for him after the next election. let's stay on the point here to get some jobs for the american

people. bill and dana, thanks for your time tonight. ahead, a congresswoman complained today -- a congressman complained today he only has $400,000 to feed his family. only $400,000. wow! you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc.

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welcome back. there are some hot political stories today. and here to talk about them are joe madison, a sirius examine radio talk show host. jerry baker, jr., white house correspondent for "the washington post." and josh travino, vice president of communication at the conservative texas public policy foundation. thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> let's talk about social security. the president made it clear today, overhauling social security is not the key to getting the economy back on track. >> social security is not the primary cause of our deficits, but it does face long-term challenges as our country grows older and both parties are going to need to work together on a separate track to strengthen social security for our children and grandchildren. >> there's no doubt democrats want social security for generations to come. 81% of democrats say that social

security should continue to exist. but republicans seem to be divided. 55% of republicans and 53% of independents say social security should be kept intact, while 41% of republicans and 36% of independents say it should be overhauled entirely. josh, has social security become the new litmus test for the republican party? >> well, i don't know if it's become a litmus test. but it's a conversation that's happening not just within the republican party, but as you just showed with that polling result, it's happening among the ranks of independents as well. americans are very concerned about the viability of social security in the long run. while there's nobody proposing ending it in any fashion, there is support for restructuring it and looking at how it can be improved. i think that's a conversation that most of the nation wants to have. not just conservatives and not just republicans. >> joe, they're not just talking about changing it. in the last republican debate, it became clear at least the leading candidates are talking

about some form of privatizing it, which is something that raises a red flag with many of us. >> you know, reverend, the two of us go way back. and i think we can go back to the debates i used to have on talk radio with conservatives when i was working at a conservative station with the likes of ollie north and others, they wanted to end social security. that was the debate that they wanted to have. but i'll quote two great americans, franklin roosevelt, i can't believe i'm saying this, ronald reagan and agreeing with him. you do not cut social security. the president made it very clear. he said, look, we've got to strengthen it. and there are ways to do that. and i think that you take those numbers, you sit down in a room and let's figure out how you, yes, keep the elderly protected, grandma protected. and at the same time for people who simply don't trust wall

street, that you allow them this insurance that they'll have something in their old age even when they're josh's age. that's really what it's all about. it's an insurance. it never was meant to be an investment. >> and i'm coming to you, perry. i want to deal with an objective reporter as yourself. when you hear the republicans and the right wingers talk about, no, we just want to reform it and change it, how do you call something a ponzi scheme and a monstrous lie and say you want to reform it? you don't reform lies. you don't reform ponzi schemes. you put them out of business. you can't have it both ways, josh. >> well, no, you can't actually. i can say in this particular case that the ponzi scheme descriptor of social security has been used for years back.

mitch daniels has used it. milton friedman used it. paul krugman used it. and yet social security has been continually reformed over the years. no reason it can't be done again now. >> of course, josh, along with age goes wisdom. >> i've not seen a lot of data for that. >> and the wisdom of top politics. and the republicans are going to learn this, social security is the third rail. don't touch it. >> well, josh, young or old learn how to filibuster because he never addressed my question. you cannot call something a monstrous lie and a ponzi scheme until -- >> no, i answered you directly. you can't. >> you chose not to answer. >> i brought up krugman. krugman wants to reform it and he called it a ponzi scheme. >> let's go to perry. perry, how do you successfully

run for office and you have declared war on social security? when you look at any of the polls, 50% of americans are less inclined to support perry because of his stance on the ponzi scheme. this is a tremendous political third rail, as joe madison said. >> i think perry probably regrets writing those words in the book. i don't think it was smart politically if he was in a presidential run to do that. that said, you can tell perry is not going to use that phrase over and over again. by the end of the day, perry, romney, the other republicans aren't going to spend a lot of time talking about social security in this campaign. they are trying to -- i don't think they're even going to put out their privatization plans. that's not the issue they want to talk about. they want to talk about jobs and the economy. i think they'll go back to that at some point. you'll see less talk about this as they go forward. >> josh is seemingly not trying

to apologize and he's trying to make the best out of a bad situation. and i intend to help josh as much as i can because you still seem to act like this is some ponzi scheme. and by quoting to me who else called it that doesn't make it any less. that's like going to court saying -- >> wait, wait, wait, no. you cite krugman like scripture. you disagree with paul krugman -- >> i disagree with whoever is saying this is a ponzi scheme. >> i'm glad to see the daylight between you and krugman here, al. >> i'm not sure you're quoting krugman right. but whoever said it, i'm disagreeing with it. you can't reform something that is set up in a way that is only arranged to try and -- >> oh, that's an odd attack. >> josh, if al sharpton sid it was a ponzi scheme, i would disagree with al sharpton. >> on al sharpton's show.

but you can't reform a change, something that is designed to just try and take somebody's money. that's what a ponzi scheme is, josh. you can't redefine what it is to try to save rick perry. >> look, if you agree that it's fundamentally unreformable, you're actually arguing by the likes of some of the leading lish liberal economists of the day to be shutdown. it's a logical consequence of what he's arguing here. >> josh ought to run for the republican nomination. he's a great distorter. >> a ponzi scheme -- people get into ponzi schemes, i'll say it again, to do what? get rich quick. nobody gets rich on social security. it isn't intended for that. >> you're selling people dreams and it is not there -- you're not holding and banking their money.

so come on, you can't -- >> so it's an aesthetic difference? >> tell me how you reform a monstrous lie. >> there are lots of examples of reforms. i'm going to appeal to your experience as -- >> how do you reform a monstrous lie? that's what rick perry called it. how do you reform a monstrous lie? if it's a monstrous lie, it's a monstrous lie. >> as structured, yes, it is. the campaign can speak for itself. but i think in this particular case, you can restructure things so that they are more solvent and more able to carry it on into the future. >> the reason you're bringing these quotes up is because if you look at the actual quote, the venom in the quote, monstrous quote, ponzi scheme, these people are not talking about reform. they want to eradicate and they are trying to do the moonwalk and say, we'll be reformers but they really were saying this must be destroyed. >> name me one person who says that.

who says that? one name who says that. tell me. >> josh, excuse me. i've been in the talk show business for 30 years. and i'm going to tell you, we can go back to the reagan years and the debate was to end social security. and that's the long-range plan. >> then they wanted to privatize it. i'll send you a book called "fed up," josh. maybe you should read it before you come on next time. >> i have read it and he doesn't call for ending it. >> he calls it a monstrous lie and calls it a ponzi scheme. >> he doesn't. >> thank you all very much for your time tonight. >> thank you, al. troy davis is scheduled to be executed in two days for killing a police officer. the hearing was held today and it will determine his fate. barry shack joins us live next. what if we designed an electric motorcycle?

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just two days before his scheduled execution, davis was found guilty in 1989 for the murder of police officer mark allen macphail. most of the eyewitnesses have incident recanted or changed their stories. troy's final appeal was today in a hearing before georgia's board of pardons and parole. outside the meetings, protesters gathered to call for clemency, adding their voices to a chorus that includes former president jimmy carter, the pope, 51 members of congress, 660,000 people who signed petitions demanding justice. this morning, the board heard from troy davis' defense team about the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, the very thing that landed him on death row. >> the jury did not hear a great deal of the evidence that's been before the board, both presented today and that's been presented to them on paper.

they heard a very, very different case than the case that we know of today. >> the board will make a decision sometime before wednesday at 7:00 p.m. when davis is scheduled to be executed by lethal injection. his life is in their hands. joining me now is barry shek who just today released a study about the unliability of eyewitness accounts. barry, welcome to the show. i was in atlanta for the protests on friday and have been there the last couple of years. i clearly have protested this case with national action. you and i have worked on a lot of cases. what can you tell us about what happened today? i know that outsiders were not allowed in. but i know you. and you have a sense of what went in front of the board today. >> we've been working on this case for a long time.

an eyewitness expert at the john j. criminal school of justice who worked on that report that was issued today by the innocence project, the american judicature society, she went down there as a witness. as you've indicated, there were seven witness that is recanted in this case. but they were the worst eyewitness procedures you could possibly imagine. the police took witnesses back to the scene of the crime and stage add re-enactment so all the witnesses talked to each other. you could never do that today -- >> just a second. they brought the witnesses and they let the witnesses actually talk to each other while they were going through what they were supposed to be describing as what they objectively saw as witnesses? >> right. and all the psychological research shows that that's about the worst thing that you can do. and by present best practices, that would never be allowed today. the police also showed single photos. but putting all that aside, this is a terrible eyewitness case and they all recanted.

but the key thing that the board of pardon and paroles seemed to be interested in today is that they heard from one of the jurors, actually there were three jurors that have recanted and said, please don't execute troy davis. >> three jurors that voted him guilty? >> yes. but one of them who was testifying today named brenda forrest who says that she's a strong supporter of the death penalty still, especially for cop killers, but given what she now knows about the ballistic evidence, which is something that people have not focused on, there was evidence put before the jury that the bullet that killed officer macphail came from the same gun that was fired at a party reputedly by troy davis. the georgia bureau of investigation now agrees that they can no longer say that the testimony they put before the jury is reliable and accurate. and they can't say that the bullet that killed the officer

came from the same gun that was shot at that party. and so brenda forrest told the board of pardon and parole that given that evidence, she certainly could never have voted to execute troy davis at the penalty phase. and they were very interested in that. they kept on questioning her about it. and the expert witness couldn't even -- >> that's startling information. if you're given information and you're on this board, that a ballistic report that was given at trial ended up not being accurate and a juror is saying that, had i not had that, i would not have voted him guilty, i think that's a compelling piece of evidence that we've not really focused on. >> that's exactly what happened. there's no doubt that the georgia bureau of investigation is saying that the ballistics testimony is unreliable and should not have been used. and the juror was questioned at length by the members of the

board because they wanted to know how important that was in the deliberations. and she said, it was very important. we discussed it at length. so that gives me some hope. there are three new board members. one of the holdover board members is a prosecutor named keller. and he was a prosecutor in a case involving calvin johnson who was exonerated with dna testing. so i know he at least knows that these kinds of mistakes can happen. and i think people really have to understand that there was a hearing, a very unusual hearing that a federal judge heard evidence in this case. and he made a finding that there's not enough proof here of, quote, unquote, actual innocence to just throw aside the conviction. but that is a lot different than what the board of pardon parole is supposed to do. they're a safety valve. while you can't say -- legally the judge was saying we have

definitive proof of actual innocence, but there's plenty of substantial doubt here. >> and they can actually stay the execution, couldn't they? >> they can stay it. and maybe hear more evidence. but i'll tell you, reverend sharpton, i think that the family of the victim in this case who everybody feels terrible for -- >> absolutely. >> this has been going on for years and years. and the proof is there. death penalty supporters like former congressman barr, william sessions, head of the fbi, people have looked at this evidence and realize, too much doubt. they shouldn't do it. >> thank you. as always, you give us a lot of depth and really get to the key matters that are being overlooked. barry, thank you for your time. >> thank you, reverend. we'll be right back. emily's just starting out... and on a budget.

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are republicans just out of touch? you be the judge.

louisiana congressman john fleming was on msnbc earlier today. he owns subway restaurants and u.p.s. franchises and real estate partnerships. it brought in at least $6.3 million last year. not a bad year. but don't tell that to him. >> the amount that i have to reinvest in my business and feed my family is more like $600,000 of that $6.3 million. so by the time i feed my family, i have maybe $400,000 left over -- >> when they hear that you only have $400,000 left over, it's not exactly a sympathetic position. >> well, again, class warfare has never created a job. >> only $400,000? there are 46.2 million people living in poverty. just $400,000 left over. you want us to feel sorry for

people with only $400,000 left over when we have 26% of african-americans below poverty, 21% of americans. and you act as though they did this to themselves, none of this has anything to do with economic policies. but we must protect your policies as you make $6.3 million a year and only worry about $400,000 left over? no. it's time for americans to stand up and have a country that w all believe in each other. a land of opportunity where you can do as well as you can. but don't do it by just charging those at the bottom and giving a free ride to those at the top. thank you for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now.